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Tuesday, June 10, 2014

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Chris

Hi, did you ever get round to writing part 3?

Cheers,

Armin

Roberto Leitão as a BJJ lineage master? Are fucking kidding me? Leitão is a loud mouth, a guy with experience on collegiate judo only, who likes to pose as a Luta-livre grand master, usurping and erasing the place of the real guys from the style: Euclydes Hatem, George Gracie, Carlos e Fausto Brunocilla and their pupils.

Roberto Leitão is such a big liar that Carlos and Helio looks like amateurs, when compared to him.

Thomas Nadelhoffer

Chris,

I still have yet to write Part III.

Armin,

Out of the whole piece, you pick one name in one sentence to criticize. How charitable of you (both to me and to Leitao). That said, I suppose we disagree about Leitao. I give him more respect and credit than you do (as do many other grapplers). To each his own.

Armin

One, two or three names, that as a gross error. The fact that you give him respect is just a proof that you are quite not used to brazilian grappling history. Did you know Leitão's accomplishments on LLE or other grappling-related style?

Thomas Nadelhoffer

"Gross error" I don't think that word means what you think it means. Moreover, the hostility you seem to be displaying suggests this is personal rather than academic for you. As for Leitaos accomplishments, I admire him for the quality of his teaching, his fluency in the philosophy of grappling, etc. I have watched enough video online to be justified in giving him that respect. Not in one single interview that I have watched have I heard him disrespect anyone that you mention. It seems to me you (or more likely, your instructor) has some beef with Leitao. That's fine. Take your complaining elsewhere. I am already tired of your attitude. Write your own history on your own blog.

Thomas Nadelhoffer

p.s. If you actually read what I said, you'll see I did not mention him as a "BJJ lineage master" as you suggest. Instead I simply mentioned him as someone who is part of the non-Gracie lineage in jiu jitsu. More precisely, I said this: "I will leave Pedreira’s story behind to focus instead on the non-Gracie lineage of Brazilian jiu jitsu that traces back to Luiz Franca, Oswaldo Fadda, Roberto Leitao, and others." When I have time to write that piece, Leitao will be one among many others who will be discussed. That doesn't make him a master. It just makes him one of many instances that establish that the Gracie's don't own jiu jitsu--rather, there is an entire branch of the jiu jitsu tree that has nothing at all to do with the Gracies.

Armin

''non-Gracie lineage of Brazilian jiu jitsu that traces back to Luiz Franca, Oswaldo Fadda, Roberto Leitao, and others''

How a BJJ lineage could be traced back to Roberto Leitão, if he only appears on collegiate Judo, in the 70's? Let me see... You had put master Fadda and Luis França in the same group of Leitão. What you indirectly told with that? That he is a Karate great master? Muay Thai grand master? Or... Maybe... BJJ grand master?

Wow, you admire Leitão because of his videos and loud mouth? Ok, at least you are fair about your reasons. Personally, I don't have nothing against Leitão. But as a martial artist, I have everything against him. He tried to usurp the place of the real LLEB grand master, Euclydes Hatem and put himself as pioneer of olympic wrestling on Brazil. He even cited Brunocillas pupils on articles on brazilian magazines, as his students.

Incredible how you want to talk about non-Gracie lineages, not mentioning the biggest name concerning them...

Gouki

Armin is right to a point. I appreciate greatly your contribution to history (and to dissipate those stinky Gracies's engineered mithology), but your threads have some errors.

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